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Re: Boiler priming and carry over

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Posted by Ken on June 07, 2004 at 13:27:28:

In Reply to: Re: Boiler priming and carry over posted by Tim D on June 05, 2004 at 07:16:48:

: : : : Both of these guys are giving you some great information. Did this problem first reveal itself after the overhaul/inspection?? Were the level controls taken apart or adjusted in any way?? Maybe you are running high water, and the carryover is happening at high loads. You did say that this occurs at high fire...maybe you are overfiring your boiler. Did this problem happen on days when the load was unusually high? Also, were the combustion controls adjusted

: during the downtime? What did you mean when you said that you had a problem getting water into one of the boilers during startup?? What was the problem? If your boiler is tripping on low water when this happens, I would definitely look at the possibility of overfiring these boilers. Wish I could see the conditions when this happens, and I wish you lots of luck in figuring this out. Like I said...those guys are giving you great info...they know what they are doing. Let us know how it turns out for you.

: : : : : At christmas time we opened all of our boilers for annual inspection. everything was great. We closed the boilers and started up on monday. We had trouble getting water into the boiler at one plant. After much inspection, it was determined,(by the carryover in the system) that it wasn't a feedwater problem, but a priming problem. This happened to a 600HP Superior Seminol firetube boiler which is fired at full rate most of the time. We also have a 500HP Superior Seminol boiler that is at a different location in the same town. When this Boiler was fired at a high rate, it did the same thing. We removed all of the chemicals, and started with a new source and one at a time. It will go fine for weeks and then upset. We have went through all of the water sofner valves and thought this might have the problem solved. Well, not so. I have checked all that I know. My TDS reading is below 1500. One question is can a small amount of water sofneer brine upset this boiler that bad and not have any effect on my TDS in the boiler. When the upset happens, my boiler shuts down on low water and when the TDS's are checked, they are just fine. I have zero condensate return. I have called the manufacture of the boiler and the DA tank and everyone else that I know and some that I don't know. Thanks

: : : : Excerpt from the Association of Water Technology training manual: There are seven reasons for mechanical carryover and only one of them can be corrected by chemical means. 1. Improper boiler design. 2. Improper maintenance 3. High water level in boiler or steam drum 4.Exceeding operational limits 5. Extreme or sudden load surges 6.Uneven firing 7.Improper water composition.

: : : : Excerpt: Priming is a form of mechanical carryover. This is caused by gross surges of water in the steam drum that literally throws water into the steam space, where it can be carried into the steam header. This can be caused by either improper design or improper operation. It sometimes can be corrected by changing the firing pattern, correcting false level indicators, or installing vertex breakers.

: : : : I don't think the small amount of brine you mentioned will cause the large carryover you are experiencing. Take chloride tests of the boiler water and compare the results with previous results to determine if you are getting brine to the boiler. Check to see if your boiler is overfull at startup. The boiler can pull a vacuum after it cools and suck process water back to the boiler. Possibly that could cause carryover. Good luck.

: : Amy, The problem started after we opened for the inspection, however, there was no work done. We just opened and closed the boilers. The level controls are McDonald Miller 7B controllers. They were opened and checked, and after we started up with problems, replaced. I called Superior Boiler and they gave me the normal water level over the top tubes and I have set the water level to this level. None of the combustion controls were changed and there has been no load change in the plant that is found. When the low water condition and carryover happens, the feedwater valve is wide open and we will go down with low water. Is it possible that an orfice in the steam discharge of the boiler for 600HP would help cure this condition? I have set and watched this boiler run at 110PSI for hours and not have any problems in the past. This is why I am so confused. Thank you for the advice. Ken

: :: Ken, When your boiler was opened for inspection, was a silicone gasket sealent used? We had a simillar issue with "Dow Corning 111 Valve and gasket sealent". This material is great, but may lead to carryover if excess used or used inside boiler pipes. Dow couldn't determine (with out testing)if Dow 111 product breaks down in boiler water. The max temp is 200c or 392F. This may lead to a time delayed priming issue.

: We had carryover on our Utica Boiler for 3 weeks until we flushed and skimmed boiler several times.(Dow 111 was used a several pipe union couplings). Let me know if this may be the cause?

: Also, regarding Orifice on steam discharge? Would this be a header trap or output control? I have found ENERCONSYSYEMSCO.com to provide simple yet very efficient steam orifice traps for boiler headers and point of use traps. We have over 20+ of their lifetime garranteed (will resize, replace at no cost) orifice traps. Hope this helps.

The only sealant that I know that we used is Rector Seal #5, and there wasn't that much used. Only to reinstall the plugs on the water level controls. The orifice I am wondering about is to limit the amount of steam out of the Boiler. This would be for load limiting control. Thanks

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